Curse

high priestess anya · Jan 14, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

i still feel that the duncan example plays a big part in anyones defense and i advise them to look through the thread to see why as i dont want to repeat myself over and over

free_fall · Jan 14, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden Arcana

We are fighting for justice, I know people who got at least 16 ambraces from this, and I didn't get 1 ambrace. We both got perma-banned. Is that REALLY fair? Since we are comparing this to real world situations. Person one kills 16 people intentionally, person b commits manslaughter. Should the punishments be the same? No and while both DID harm someone, there were serious differences in the crimes at hand.

This has to be one of the most hysterically funny rationales yet offered.

"Yes, we all went farming and my buds got oodles of goodies but I got squat, so I shouldn't get the same punishment." Certainly looks to me like the "crime" was the same, only the pay-off was different.

Or was that statement referring to the difference between murder and manslaughter? In that case, the pay-off is the same - someone dies - with the difference in the crimes being the matter of intent.

I suppose next you'll try to convince us that you never participated in these farms with the intention (or expectation) of collecting oodles of goodies. You only did it for the fun factor, right?

Puritans Aid · Jan 14, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

HI GUYS IM BACK,

OK, I have to come forward with my absolute and total ignorance of this game. I am posting this as a FULL APPOLOGY to the GUILD WARS COMMUNITY, and to the FORUM ADMINS, and to GAILE GRAY, and to A NET.

I AM SORRY I CALLED YOU LIARS< ETC> I AM VERY VERY SORRY I was SO very ignorant about this game/hack.

I was thuroughly convinced this was a bug/glitch, A NETS fault.
I did NOT realized this town was not legit.

I AM VERY SORRY FOR THESE THINGS>

I had a VERY interesting Conversation last night, with a person I cannot name here, and thru this conversation I have become 100% convinced this WAS INDEED A HACK.

I am EXTREMELY sorry to admit, that it is nearly 100% confirmed as a hack, and I am pretty much a total retarded idiot.

Again, I appologize from the deepest areas of my heart. I hope the Hackers are brought to justice.

Thanks everyone, for telling me I was wrong. I now know I was.

Please forgive my Ignorance.

Thanks a lot guys,
Puritans AID

DreamWind · Jan 14, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

breaching user agreement > punishment...regardless of the means and what people say, including anet.
even if there was no hack involved these guys still breached user agreement
as did all the other exploiters and bots and bla bla

If you look at the EULA, Anet can essentially ban you for any reason even if its as stupid as you didn't give them the correct information. If I'm not mistaken, the words are "terminate at our discretion".

So I completely disagree with these bans if there was no hack involved. If it was simply a bug in the game, I don't think any bans should have been given out. They should have removed the benefits gained from the exploit and fixed it.

That being said, Anet lied one way or the other. I remember Anet previously stating that the game was unhackable, and now there is a claim of a hack. One way or the other...

Mathman · Jan 14, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Once again, it comes to my attention, people shielding themselves from the EULA saying, that some exploit is worst than other, I have been playing NC Soft games since CoH appeared in the shelves of the stores around USA, and Before that I was a Diablo Player, a definition of Exploit as a "experienced gamer" is for a fact the use or abuse of any bug or flaw in the system, and the terminology used as hacking the system its wrong, in any case they cracked the server, why do I say the server, lets say you are the best hacker or cracker in the world, it would do nothing to help you to "hack the client", why?, first of all the client does "nothing" gamewise, the client only contents are graphics, sounds, videos, skins, models, etc..., the server controls everything that happens in-game, I'm going to get a lot of, that is not true, how many of you have lagged out and you were in one outpost and suddenly you appear in another outpost, which was the one the server registered you in before lagging out, or how many of you have rubberbanded in-game during a "run" or a "mish" to suddenly realized you are either death or miles away from where you thought you were...
The point of this is to say that any exploit been done in-game is inside the server, there is no way to say hack the client and get some response from the server that you want, you can modify the packets to a certain extent to tell the server to do something you want, but that would require for you to have a "trainer" or a software to do it, external from GW... because GW.EXE its only a client so there is "conversation" between Your computer and the server, the server side decides if the order you are doing goes or not, well we are going too deep in this.

One other thing that the "haters" don't get is that, this outpost was a secret or a mistake or simply the way that elite mish was gonna be, either way, someone told this supposed "hacker", Hey dude, did you know there is an outpost that goes straight to Mallyx?", cause I mean, unless you told me this guy was from ANET, or the "Hacker" itself was a former employee, I don't see some player exploring the entire code to see if there is something interesting, loosing "GAME TIME" which all of us know that is precious if you enjoy the game... and ALL OF THE GUYS BANNED KNEW THAT HACKING IS BAN, that is why all of them defend their position of non hacking the client.

What I'm trying to get with this post is that, any player who abused form a bug, a flaw in the system, or any other wrong do'er, should receive the same treatment as this poor guys, a lot of people put Duncan as an example, but that is not the only one, the Guildhall trick was an exploit too and I don't see all the lvl1's who have all the outposts including EOTN in this list.

ANET, wants to set an example, but the example is too harsh in comparison of other "exploits" which do cause "Economic Issues" or that do affect Gameplay...

Well I guess those 117 or 116 are gonna be WoW'ing or playing other games, cause ANET is so Square minded that don't care that those players were "exploiting" an area, but didn't affect economically the GW World, In My Opinion, they even helped with dropping the prices of GEMSETS and Armbraces, and for those who say that Duncan wasn't that bad, Economically a lot made a good money from selling ONYX and Gold Drops to prices that people don't mention in their Posts

Luv, Da Mathman...

mrvrod · Jan 14, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

To use a bad analogy and to get a bit of insight into why Anet takes hacking so seriously (even though I'm sure everyone knows why), hacking their servers is like someone stealing your pants to do explicit things to you. Hence the banning commences, because they feel violated! (so to speak)

I think a more apples to apples comparison would be Duncan= a pfishing email sent to banking customers looking for account information. Mallyx=A direct breach into the bank's servers to empty customer's accounts.

The first is something a bank would want to warn customer's about, the latter perminantly damages the banks reputation for security.

BuD · Jan 14, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

i still feel that the duncan example plays a big part in anyones defense and i advise them to look through the thread to see why as i dont want to repeat myself over and over

You can not compare Duncan to this!

Anet forgot to put doors on Duncan AT THE RELEASE OF GWEN allowing access for everyone who completed GWEN reguardless if they did the required sub quests or not. They noticed their mistake & fixed it by addidng locked doors.

Anet DID NOT forget to put a way to keep people from doin Mallyx prematurely. Someone hacked their client & got access to Mallyx without doing the subquests.

I can hardly see how these can be comparable.

Chicken Ftw · Jan 14, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

I am EXTREMELY sorry to admit, that it is nearly 100% confirmed as a hack, and I am pretty much a total retarded idiot.

Again, I appologize from the deepest areas of my heart. I hope the Hackers are brought to justice.

Thanks everyone, for telling me I was wrong. I now know I was.

Please forgive my Ignorance.

Thanks a lot guys,
Puritans AID

Now that's what I like to see, people owning up. Apologizing, even. Good on ya, bro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathman

those players were "exploiting" an area, but didn't affect economically the GW World, In My Opinion, they even helped with dropping the prices of GEMSETS and Armbraces

News flash bud, that's effecting the economy.

Oh, and Dream. They said the servers were pretty impenetrable, not the client itself. This was a client hack.

mrvrod · Jan 14, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathman

Well I guess those 117 or 116 are gonna be WoW'ing or playing other games, cause ANET is so Square minded that don't care that those players were "exploiting" an area, but didn't affect economically the GW World, In My Opinion, they even helped with dropping the prices of GEMSETS and Armbraces, and for those who say that Duncan wasn't that bad, Economically a lot made a good money from selling ONYX and Gold Drops to prices that people don't mention in their Posts

Luv, Da Mathman...

Well Mathman, please do the math again, because 18k per gemset for 15min or less of work, rinse, repeat, would seem to be pretty economically upsetting to me, but maybe you're using the 'new' math.

I have to reiterate, life is NOT fair! A-net does not have to be fair. They get to choose what punishments they institute for breaches of the eula.

garethporlest18 · Jan 14, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Abnaxus, Mallyx without the hack would be extremely close to the Duncan bug. And I think in that case it should be treated as Duncan was treated.

Also Mathman for the past 1-2 pages we've been talking about how Anet did not ban because of economy effect or how much wealth one got from either exploit. But the fact that one used a HACK and the other was a bug which was on Anet's side. The fact there was a hack involved changes all the rules. I'm pretty sure that is what Anet is thinking, as it seems logical from their past actions on Exploits.

So Duncan was a small exploit compared to Mallyx because Mallyxs' used a hack.

high priestess anya · Jan 14, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Not an argument, as both situations are incomparable (as opposed to popular belief by those who are banned)
.

stop kicking these guys whilst they are down!
what i have a said is to "taken into consideration" not used as an "excuse" ok?
jeezuz give these guys a break
rip me apart all you want i stand by what i said and i TRUELY belive the bullet points hold value although some more than others...you are not the just so dont swing your long arm around here...i for one are not here to discredit either side.
please for gawd sake be productive and unbiased

Trub · Jan 14, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Anya....did support un ban your account with these things in consideration?
Or, are you trying to give the other 116 some filler to put on their tickets?
Honesty is the only option open for any of them, not someone elses opinion.

Mathman · Jan 14, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

Well Mathman, please do the math again, because 18k per gemset for 15min or less of work, rinse, repeat, would seem to be pretty economically upsetting to me, but maybe you're using the 'new' math.

I have to reiterate, life is NOT fair! A-net does not have to be fair. They get to choose what punishments they institute for breaches of the eula.

If that was the case, and It was stated by ANET that the max guy had 638 landings in the outpost that is a total of 14 armbraces my friend, not 18k every 15mins, even if it required only 2 landings per gemset, (638 / 2) /15 = 21 Armbraces...

So, before posting about economically upsetting issues, do your math homework

, as people responded me, 1 or 21 armbraces are more than what people have, but still doesn't have an economical impact, cause there are players with more than 500+ armbraces, how, I don't know, and I don't what to get involved in that, just think about it...

high priestess anya · Jan 14, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

Anya....did support un ban your account with these things in consideration?
Or, are you trying to give the other 116 some filler to put on their tickets?
Honesty is the only option open for any of them, not someone elses opinion.

no

i will be unbanned because i didnt exploit nothing
and i aint all that fussed about these guys posting more tickets because imo they deserve a severe punishment not a perma ban
like i said i am not supporting the major exploiters
only advising the minor exploiters that they dont deserve such a severe punishment for exploiting items to the value of below 40k

Firebaall · Jan 14, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aum

And the majority of the banned did not use the hack but used the "Duncan Ferry" method.

And the doors didn't get blown off this whole thing until one single person out of the many who exploited it posted it on the the forum asking "WTF".

The rest of them knew full well what they were doing.

high priestess anya · Jan 14, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

and how did you ever come to this conclusion....

dont judge me as you know nothing, dont tell me you know more about my case than me because you dont. i was banned for residing in the area and didnt exploit ie "gain/profit" anything.
i will be unbanned if justice is served.
im the only none biased poster in the last mob of threads...i have no time to reply to silly posts no more and i have done all the explaining on the many earlier posts i submitted...my advice to all you guys is read the whole thread before pointing fingers and slurring words
being there isnt "exploiting" nothing. clicking the "accept mission" is the exploit. the moment you press that button you skip all bosses of DOA. just residing there, provided you have reported the bug and not told anyone about it, IS NOT BREACHING EULA

Chthon · Jan 14, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

HI GUYS IM BACK,

OK, I have to come forward with my absolute and total ignorance of this game. I am posting this as a FULL APPOLOGY to the GUILD WARS COMMUNITY, and to the FORUM ADMINS, and to GAILE GRAY, and to A NET.

I AM SORRY I CALLED YOU LIARS< ETC> I AM VERY VERY SORRY I was SO very ignorant about this game/hack.

I was thuroughly convinced this was a bug/glitch, A NETS fault.
I did NOT realized this town was not legit.

I AM VERY SORRY FOR THESE THINGS>

I had a VERY interesting Conversation last night, with a person I cannot name here, and thru this conversation I have become 100% convinced this WAS INDEED A HACK.

I am EXTREMELY sorry to admit, that it is nearly 100% confirmed as a hack, and I am pretty much a total retarded idiot.

Again, I appologize from the deepest areas of my heart. I hope the Hackers are brought to justice.

Thanks everyone, for telling me I was wrong. I now know I was.

Please forgive my Ignorance.

Thanks a lot guys,
Puritans AID

Thank you for having the guts to apologize when you were wrong. That's something we could use more of around here.

One thing still bugs me though: Were you really partied with a hacker (or someone who had previously partied with a hacker to get the outpost, or someone who had previously partied with someone else (who had previous partied with someone else, who had previously partied with someone else, etc.) who had previously partied with a hacker to get the outpost) when you thought you weren't, or did the hack leave the outpost accessible to you without any connection to the hacker at all?

Clait · Jan 14, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeroxC

Duncan = Bank owner leaving the doors unlocked and thieves wondering in. -Thief

Mallyx = Some guy drives a truck into the banks wall then the thieving hoardes move in. -Thief

You understand the difference ?

No I do not see the difference. Both were in the "wrong." One had no consequence, the other had the ultimate penalty.

high priestess anya · Jan 14, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

i wont stop... i will fight for what i think is fair until told by someone with the authority otherwise...
seems im the only sympathetic ear here. i have been unbiased entirely and stuck by my own beliefs and own thoughts.
tired of all you guys kicking these guys when they are down

garethporlest18 · Jan 14, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

dont judge me as you know nothing, dont tell me you know more about my case than me because you dont. i was banned for residing in the area and didnt exploit ie "gain/profit" anything.
i will be unbanned if justice is served.
im the only none biased poster in the last mob of threads...i have no time to reply to silly posts no more and i have done all the explaining on the many earlier posts i submitted...my advice to all you guys is read the whole thread before pointing fingers and slurring words
being there isnt "exploiting" nothing. clicking the "accept mission" is the exploit. the moment you press that button you skip all bosses of DOA. just residing there, provided you have reported the bug and not told anyone about it, IS NOT BREACHING EULA

Um Anya, being there is exploiting. It's not suppose to be on your map, it was placed on your map by a hack, that's why you got banned. You might not have hacked it, nor anyone in your party, but they got the "virus" and gave it to you as well and you suffered the consequences for it even though you might not have done much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Thank you for having the guts to apologize when you were wrong. That's something we could use more of around here.

One thing still bugs me though: Were you really partied with a hacker (or someone who had previously partied with a hacker to get the outpost, or someone who had previously partied with someone else (who had previous partied with someone else, who had previously partied with someone else, etc.) who had previously partied with a hacker to get the outpost) when you thought you weren't, or did the hack leave the outpost accessible to you without any connection to the hacker at all?

I think it spread like a virus would among people. Hacker gets the outpost, passes it to people, those people past it on..so on and so on.

Also I am not trying to kick you guys down, I'm trying to steer you from false hope.